Curse

byteme! · Feb 26, 2009, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Good topic....I just coincidentally went out and bought GW Trilogy just so I can abuse another act with. Can't wait to figure out whether I can use my heroes while I afk and watch tv. (occasionally flagging them into a mob) Who needs Ursan and SF when you can just let your heroes do everything while sitting back and mindlessly headbutting keyb.....oh wait I don't have to do that either. Sweet...

Daesu · Feb 26, 2009, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Heroes are amazing at protting with weapon spells such as WoW

The problem is that they like to spam WoW so much that they hardly give Xinrae's weapon a chance to cast. Using those 2 skills on the same skill bar would just make Xinrae useless, you may as well bring another elite or replace wow. Xinrae works better with wos because wos has a higher recharge. Replacing sab's restore healer bar with xinrae weapon for the elite and take out WoW for WoS should make the hero spam Xinrae more.

Super Igor · Feb 26, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Sometimes, they wont cast XW but thats because its a spell that got it functionality changed heroes always have trouble with those, not because you have wow or other spells on your bar they have no effect on hero casting XW.

XW previously disabled spells being cast on ally or something like that and had quite a huge recharge and energy cost then it got changed into WoR kind of thing but heroes dont seem to have their AI updated to use it like WoR.

It has nothing to do with wow's recharge, like I said, they wont override weapon spells.

Daesu · Feb 26, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Sometimes, they wont cast XW but thats because its a spell that got it functionality changed heroes always have trouble with those, not because you have wow or other spells on your bar they have no effect on hero casting XW.

Not true. The AI was updated with the spell a long time ago. I replace wow with wos and they cast xw just fine.

Super Igor · Feb 26, 2009, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Not true. The AI was updated with the spell a long time ago. I replace wow with wos and they cast xw just fine.

Yes it is true Daesu, they cast xw the same regardless of having [weapon of warding] or [weapon of shadow].

AtomicMew · Feb 27, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

For 6 hero, RoJway with a proper tank is probably the "strongest." You could probably do pretty much anything cryway can do.

Daesu · Feb 27, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Yes it is true Daesu, they cast xw the same regardless of having [weapon of warding] or [weapon of shadow].

You must be playing a different game then because they seem to show different recharge time on my screen.

WoW is more spammable than WoS. Most of the time, if they cant cast WoW or WoS, they would cast xw.

Super Igor · Feb 27, 2009, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You must be playing a different game then because they seem to show different recharge time on my screen.

WoW is more spammable than WoS. Most of the time, if they cant cast WoW or WoS, they would cast xw.

I play the same game you do unfortunately Daesu but contrary to you I know how to play it.

Yes exactly if they wow say two guys they will have 6 guys to prot with XW but why do you assume its a bad thing? XW isn't Discord. Its like telling to drop guardian on a monk because it spams WoH less with it, logic fail.
WoW saves them roughly 10 energy and it is by far a better prot than XW so I dont get why you want to drop it to make your healer less effective.

kupp · Mar 01, 2009, 01:39 AM // 01:39

So - haven't had much time for gw in the last days but the time I had spent experimenting. Tried a lot of different things, this is what worked best for me.

[build=OwAS4YIP+MrPKxlQ9r+415B]
[build=OANDUsldSLVVBoBKgLCJgGNVVA]
[build=OwYT04XCTSjoB8uZ67uKgAZANCA]
[build=OANDQplNTcaGCTCbhVVBE1D3VA]
[build=OghjowMooOk1cWREY44wY4ikLA]
[build=OgRDcZycOpid4pgpBLeFHC7A]

It's prettu good, but my first Talkhora + Gwen + Vekk + Sabway I posted on the post page still feels like it works better than this.

I added [save yourselves!] to my bar but I wouldn't want to rely on it too much, because I'd either have to add [for great justice] and possibly [enduring harmony], plus Flail and Enraging Charge. That leaves me only 3 spots for attack skills.

I've been reading the discussion, actually still prefer using [weapon of remedy] over [xinrae's weapon].

Finally, I also toyed around with paragons, and I like them. Skills like [song of purification] and very appealing and since I'm using an orders necro they would only benefit from him. The problem is I don't feel like they provide a lot of support, and if it's worth keeping them. I read the sticky on this forum and seeing people commenting that that build can compete with sabway is beyong my compreehension. It's good but meh, and without keeping SY 100% up of the time, feels gimped. Also looking at Daesu's bar he posted earlier, the shouts only last a couple of seconds until a spell is cast or damage is taken, and then you're stuck waiting for 20-30 seconds for it to recharge. Doesn't seem that effective.

Still I'd like to further experiment with them, am I missing something? Because I don't see how they can really cut it. And then I'd feel the need to add in a curses necro to take advantage of 3 physicals that actually hit what I tell them to, instead of having the minion's from sabway hitting random stuff.

Also, any other tips on anything are very welcome... I really want to find and LEARN the concept of an actual team build since I have 6 heroes at my disposal. Can't and don't really want to believe that sabway is the ultimate build there can be on PvE.

infamous16 · Mar 01, 2009, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by kupp

So - haven't had much time for gw in the last days but the time I had spent experimenting. Tried a lot of different things, this is what worked best for me.

[build=OwAS4YIP+MrPKxlQ9r+415B]
[build=OANDUsldSLVVBoBKgLCJgGNVVA]
[build=OwYT04XCTSjoB8uZ67uKgAZANCA]
[build=OANDQplNTcaGCTCbhVVBE1D3VA]
[build=OghjowMooOk1cWREY44wY4ikLA]
[build=OgRDcZycOpid4pgpBLeFHC7A]

It's prettu good, but my first Talkhora + Gwen + Vekk + Sabway I posted on the post page still feels like it works better than this.

I added [save yourselves!] to my bar but I wouldn't want to rely on it too much, because I'd either have to add [for great justice] and possibly [enduring harmony], plus Flail and Enraging Charge. That leaves me only 3 spots for attack skills.

I've been reading the discussion, actually still prefer using [weapon of remedy] over [xinrae's weapon].

Finally, I also toyed around with paragons, and I like them. Skills like [song of purification] and very appealing and since I'm using an orders necro they would only benefit from him. The problem is I don't feel like they provide a lot of support, and if it's worth keeping them. I read the sticky on this forum and seeing people commenting that that build can compete with sabway is beyong my compreehension. It's good but meh, and without keeping SY 100% up of the time, feels gimped. Also looking at Daesu's bar he posted earlier, the shouts only last a couple of seconds until a spell is cast or damage is taken, and then you're stuck waiting for 20-30 seconds for it to recharge. Doesn't seem that effective.

Still I'd like to further experiment with them, am I missing something? Because I don't see how they can really cut it. And then I'd feel the need to add in a curses necro to take advantage of 3 physicals that actually hit what I tell them to, instead of having the minion's from sabway hitting random stuff.

Also, any other tips on anything are very welcome... I really want to find and LEARN the concept of an actual team build since I have 6 heroes at my disposal. Can't and don't really want to believe that sabway is the ultimate build there can be on PvE.

for that build it seems like you don't have enough heals...

daze · Mar 01, 2009, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by infamous16

for that build it seems like you don't have enough heals...

[divert hexes] has healing power, spammable only 5 second recharge. Potential for MASSIVE heals in hex heavy areas.
[word of healing] great spike healer, spammable only 3 second recharge
[patient spirit] adds to the heal spike, spammable only 3 second recharge
[signet of rejuvenation] another decent heal, only 8 second recharge
[dwaynas sorrow] bonus random heals from minions, spammable only 5 second recharge
[cure hex] although conditional like [[divert hexes] it offers heals
you dont need a million heals on your team when your heals are spread out, low costing, and fast recharging.

looks like a nice number of heals on the board IMO. Not to mention Divine favor bonus and all the lovely prots on the board.

A good team of 8 never needs more than 1 healer and 1 protter. or 1 hybrid and 1 protter, or even better 2 hybrids. or in this case, 1 hybrid and 1 protter, and 1 smite with [smiters boon]

Super Igor · Mar 01, 2009, 11:12 AM // 11:12

mah veeeery old 6-man Discord, havent updated it in ages but why bother if it rules anyway?

[build prof=n/rt box death=14 curse=11 soul=9][discord][animate shambling horror][shadow of fear][barbs][enfeebling blood][weaken armor][signet of lost souls][death pact signet][/build]
[build prof=n/mo box death=14 prot=10 soul=9][discord][animate shambling horror][putrid bile][shield of absorption][protective spirit][convert hexes][aegis][signet of lost souls][/build]
[build prof=n/rt box death=14 chan=10 soul=9][discord][putrid bile][animate bone minions][death nova][splinter weapon][ancestor's rage][destruction][signet of lost souls][/build]
[build prof=n/mo box death=14 heal=10 soul=9][discord][putrid bile][rotting flesh][patient spirit][dwayna's sorrow][heal party][cure hex][signet of lost souls][/build]
[build prof=n/rt box death=12 rest=12 soul=9][discord][weapon of warding][protective was kaolai][spirit light][mend body and soul][life][signet of lost souls][flesh of my flesh][/build]
[build prof=n/rt box death=12 rest=12 soul=9][discord][weapon of warding][protective was kaolai][spirit light][mend body and soul][recovery][signet of lost souls][flesh of my flesh][/build]

I play i with a friend, running AP caller myself and he is running a [wounding strike] scythe ranger because I dont like how double AP caller works.

kupp · Mar 01, 2009, 12:25 PM // 12:25

@ daze if SY is constantly up you don't even need that. The smite, the orders/healer and dwayna's sorrow from the minions would be more than enough. Like gigashadow said, the more damage the better

@ super igor, d-way is as gimmicky as it gets indeed. The whole point of this thread is to be able to get the principles behind a balanced team instead of running discord or RoJ x6. But am I just asking too much? Seems like everyone just runs some gimmicky or overpowered skill and steamroles through pve.

Super Igor · Mar 01, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Discord isnt a gimmick :O Its just one very overpowered skill. Yes you ask too much because there is nothing called balanced in pve...its either 6 random hero bars or a skill or technique being heavily abused.

Gigashadow · Mar 01, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

While Orders are fun, especially if you aren't running For Great Justice!, I don't think they are worth it when you consider that that character will spend almost his entire existence spamming those 2 spells, and incurring large amounts of health loss that another character has to heal. You are paying an opportunity cost of having a character that can do so much more without being such a burden. To take maximum advantage of orders you'd also need almost your entire team to be physicals, but your setup is all casters.

Just bring [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] on your warrior for a similar effect. Unlike orders, that actually affects minions too (and spell damage as well for that matter).

I've tried [Song of Purification] and didn't like it. It takes too long to build up, and too long to cast. Maybe it just didn't work well with the other skills I had on his bar though. Also doesn't work if the paragon gets blinded, so you need to bring [Spear of Redemption] or hope someone else removes blind. I never found conditions that bothersome; the necro does a good job at removing an entire stack of conditions from me with [Foul Feast]. Your setup is mainly casters, who care even less about conditions than physicals do. If party-wide conditions were that important to remove I'd consider [Extinguish] (ideal to stick on a necro, who doesn't care about energy) or [Martyr].

I used to run a motivation paragon hero with [Song of Restoration] and [Anthem of Flame]. The burning did help to bring enemies down quickly (although you often already have bleeding+poison from the necro). He was a "half offensive/half defensive (mainly party heals)" character. I've recently been running the earth ele previously mentioned in this thread, in his spot, just to try something new, but I need to bring 2 hench monks when I do that.

The song of resto paragon setup with only 1 hench monk (and a crapload of physicals) kills faster than the earth ele with 2 hench monks, but you have to be more on the ball because there is less defense.

Gigashadow · Mar 09, 2009, 01:42 AM // 01:42

I thought I'd share a paragon build I've been tweaking and playing in my H/H setup. I've been trying out various other characters in this slot, but could never get something I was happy with. For example, a D/N orders necro felt like a big Rube Goldberg contraption and I wasn't really getting my money's worth, whereas an earth ele, while providing more defense, had no synergy, made me kill slower, and made things scatter.

I've always liked the paragon Leadership and Motivation skills, but was never that blown away by the Spear skills, which often have better alternatives in other professions. Spear Mastery just eats up more valuable attribute points leaving you with little else for a secondary. Spear paragons also have to spend a lot of time attacking to build up adrenaline, instead of using chants.

[build prof=p/rt moti=12 lead=12 chan=10][Song of Restoration][Ballad of Restoration][Anthem of Flame][Aria of Zeal][Lyric of Zeal][Blazing Finale][Splinter Weapon][Signet of Aggression][/build]
This guy wields a Channeling Rod + a Motivation shield, and is set on passive. You know how when you put [Splinter Weapon] on one of your necros or other heroes, and it never casts it as often as you want? Well, you don't have to worry about that with this guy, he *spams* that skill almost on recharge, much more than any other character I've ever put it on, which makes me very happy.

You can swap out [Signet of Aggression][Lyric of Zeal] (haven't really finalized these two) but you'll need alternative energy management if you do. I put these in because it helps not only himself (in a nice self-feedback loop) but party members. You can use [Glowing Signet] but that doesn't help anybody else and you'd need to put him back on Defend so he can target enemies.

I wasn't entirely happy to be building adrenaline and using only one adrenaline skill (although in practice it works out quite well), so I tried out [Song of Purification] but was not impressed with the way that worked out; it rarely seemed to be up at the right time.

This guy gets to benefit from his own [Aria of Zeal] when casting [Splinter Weapon], which is a nice plus.

Then you pack your party with physicals. You'll notice that enemies are burning pretty much permanently, often AOE, due to yourself + henchmen using attack skills, or shouts ending on people.

For reference the other two heroes I run in the setup are:

[build prof=n/mo curses=12 prot=12 soul=9][Divert Hexes][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Rip Enchantment][Shield of Absorption][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]
plus the very standard minion bomber:
[build prof=n/mo death=14 heal=9 soul=9][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Dwayna's Sorrow][Foul Feast][Infuse Condition][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]
I took out [Weaken Armor] from the curses necro. That skill turned out to be better in theory than in practice. I noticed that cracked armor was rarely on what I was attacking, even when I was calling targets (I know this because [Body Blow] didn't trigger a deep wound most of the time after the first mob). In any case, most of my damage is armor ignoring, such as burning or +bonus damage, and the base attack damage of the low level minions is really nothing anyway. If I had elementalists in my party I'd prioritize cracked armor a little more.